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Tulpa Discussion / tulpa-discussion
The channel for discussion strictly on the topic of tulpas. Take off-topic discussion to #lounge Forum's Tulpa Discussion Board: https://community.tulpa.info/forum/4-general-discussion/
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doesn't matter who you do it, I will be like acid on their reputation
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[Sorry no Sete here]
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so I'd prefer to be left alone
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But also I'm going to leave, so try not to fight okay?
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Bye Flandre. Thanks for the links!
12:11 AM
Is that a punch or a fist bump?
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a kindly intended punch (edited)
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The entire concept of this community hinges on taking subjective information as objective, so it's hard to criticize someone for not clearly defining their personal experiences as subjective.
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@Deleted User Ah - you might be misunderstanding, then. I do exist in some fashion, whether that is as a personality state, as a character, as a 'hub' of personality states, etc.
12:12 AM
People are free to disagree with what precisely they think I am, but disputing that I exist in some sense seems absurd.
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12:12 AM
When Skye claims I exist to people outside the community, I interact with them directly, demonstrating myself.
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Good, but your existence as a personality state, or a hub, or any entity can not be measured and is therefore subjective.
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[And "thinking multiple things at the same time" also "exists" in a fashion. So yeah. I still give priority to actual subjective functioning over objective brain structures. But meh.]
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It is, then, no longer just a claim - but a claim with demonstrated support.
12:13 AM
Oh, certainly.
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The idea of tulpa existence is whether the tulpa fits into a definition.
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People can believe that I am any of those things.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/14/2018 12:13 AM
@Sete[Silina]{Set}#7194 Something stood out to me about this statement of yours: "I can feel like I think multiple things at once." What defines parallel processing is not you thinking about multiple things at once, but someone else in your brain thinking about something while you think about something else. That is what separates it from multitasking in the first place
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But, again, that does not change or dispute the claim that I exist. Period. Full stop.
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Do you all believe that when you talk about parallel processing as you do that your words give the full nuanced idea of what is going on to the average new user?
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and what support? Yet again, while I believe in your existence, you're not providing any evidence because you're behind a keyboard and we will never truly know if you're actually the one giving these messages. I sincerely hope you see the paradox here?
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You could believe that "Winter" is an act of the person behind the keyboard.
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Thinking that something exists makes it exist. Dragons don’t actually exist, but because they are believed in, they can be said to believe.
12:14 AM
Exist*
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And, again - that is not disputing that "Winter" exists - merely the nature of what "Winter" is.
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[Well no. The experience of this brain thinks multiple things at the same time. hum]
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The entire community hinges on these subjective experiences being titled as objective and as such, it should not be criticized when someone states a subjective experience without clarifying.
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@Abvieon {Alex} That's a very tulpamancy-minded approach. It might be best to, in order avoid claims of persistent wonderlanding and such, restrict this to one's ability to parallel process themselves?
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...in addition.
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exists as a tulpa, there. that's what i'm talking about.
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should we seek to give honest impressions to everyone?
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Claiming "I exist" is also not claiming something that is demonstrably false or even demonstrably implausible.
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should we seek to be as clear and honest in our language as possible?
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I think we should.
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the existance of any tulpa is a subjective personal experience which can not be measured.
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And I do not think that the way people tend to talk about parallel processing is doing this
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It's also infalsifiable, and you know what they say about infalsifiable claims.
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and I would further go on to say that I don't think the way people often talk about tulpa is doing this
12:16 AM
we don't say "I feel parallel processing" we say "I was parallel processing"
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I do agree, Reguile.
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we don't clarify the nuances and the ideas that build up all of this in our langauge
12:16 AM
and we need to
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Using the prior example - claiming that one can simultaneously process multiple tasks rather than switching back and forth constantly, is in fact claiming something that is demonstrably implausible. Research already exists about this. If further research shows otherwise, then that is an altered claim with support.
12:16 AM
I agree with Reguile.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/14/2018 12:16 AM
@Reisen Parallel processing does not apply to a singlet. That is the point I am making. When I talk about parallel processing I am referring only to plurality.
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["Clear and honest" again depends on your view. There is "clear and honest" this is what objectively happens in the brain and "clear and honest" This is what you will experience.]
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@Deleted User My claim of existing as a tulpa is falsifiable.
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But if you can measure the effects of having a tulpa, you can say that a person has a tulpa. Like a mental illness, if you measure the symptoms relative to each other, you can say that that person has a mental illness.
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That said, it also depends on the specific definition of a tulpa.
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I had a feeling you'd say that. It's not something I really believe, though.
12:17 AM
If a tulpa and host could do it, either one of them could also do it. It's the brain's ability, not theirs.
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How many conversations are being had in here at once?
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@Sete Then make differentiation between the two.
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Whether or not the way to actually do such a thing is immediately apparent.
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Otherwise, you are not being honest about what you are stating, because it comes with unstated and unimplied qualifications.
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The widely accepted definition is that tulpae are separate, sentient beings in your head.
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[The brain might be switching back and forth. Personally I think it does it so fast that I do not notice(And what I don't notice is unimportant to me)]
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If I say "there's an invisible, intangible, immeasurable unicorn beside my chair farting invisible intangible immeasurable gases that given the ability for light to shine through it would be rainbows", that is NOT demonstrably false, and is totally infalsifiable, even though it's clearly not true. Saying that something we can not measure exists directly follows into the fact that it is a subjective experience, and a tulpa is experienced only from within the brain, and is unfalsifiable by nature due to the inability to specifically measure an aspect of the tulpa.
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Parallel processing isn’t essential to that definition.
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By that definition I do not believe in tulpas. (edited)
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Do you see where I'm going with this? Tulpae are real, but they're a subjective experience by nature.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/14/2018 12:18 AM
I believe that multiple consciousnesses are required for parallel processing. If I were to try to think of multiple things at once, I would not be able to because I am a single 'perspective'
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This entire community is built upon that subjective experience being relayed as fact.
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Yes, high
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[Yup. The study coming up could claim that I am 1000% a delusion that doesn't exist ect and it wouldn't even matter to us. I would still experience myself existing.]
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@Deleted User We can measure tulpas. There should be some way to scan the brain that shows some difference in brain functioning as compared to people who don't have tulpas, or who are just acting.
12:19 AM
A study to that effect is going to happen. I look forward to it very much.
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No, all that would possibly happen is some extra activity which would mimic increased thinking.
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Source, Winter?
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EEG only shows so much.
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@Beckett If a brain scan shows no difference between a person having a tulpa and pretending to do so, that would strongly indicate that having a tulpa is pretense.
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Basically shit that reads your brain waves, Ilsze
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It isn't conclusive by any means, but it is additional data.
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Thanks
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...which is the point.
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but that's the thing
12:19 AM
we don't HAVE that study
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[I think you could split your focus sufficiently as a singlet to parallel process(subjective version) But it would take a lot of work. With tulpas it's easy.]
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Not currently, no.
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we have that study for DID
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That is true.
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Tulpamancy is not DID, it is very different.
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There are similarities, indicating that multiplicity is at least possible.
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but all that study shows is that DID is distinct from acting, I wouldn't put more on it than that
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I would not consider that study important here.
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and since we do not have a peer reviewed, controlled study, we can not possibly determine the tulpa as an objective experience.
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[ @SkyeNet But see. If a brain scan for you showed that you don't exist and it's just your host pretending. Would you now not exist?]
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and on DID, it is not relevant
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I don't think we all need to only speak about things that have objective evidence
12:21 AM
I think it's fine to talk about subjective experience
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There are large differences between the two.
12:21 AM
Therefore
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but I think we need to be careful, very careful, and very sure, to communicate in our language that we are talking about subjective experiences.
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the entire community is built on subjective experiences portrayed as objective
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and that the underlying mechanisms may or may not match those experiences
12:21 AM
and I don't think we are currently doing that.
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and in that regard, most claims regarding personal experiences are subjective
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